Ok fair. But at least it usually stays in threads. Plus, given that it's build on a protocol and not a centralized product, it does fairly well, all things considered.
I guess that does raise a sort of interesting question though: What would it look like if someone rebuilt email as a closed app? Maybe the problem with email is less email, and more that it has to work in this open ecosystem that makes it really hard to manage.
late to the game - but my number one problem with slack is everything disappears after I read it and then I can't find it again - and I hate having everything marked as unread.
Also - I'm starting a filing cabinet business with redundancy via underground tunnels. You put the paper in the filing cabinet and it automatically photocopies the paper and sends a copy to another location via the tunnel. 50k min investment.
Yeah, the unread thing is really messy, especially since it's just a marker in the thread, and not specific to messages. And if your filing cabinet can replace Slack, I'm in.
Oh huh, I didn't realize they were charging extra for it (and for the kind of obvious stuff like better search and "summarize my messages," no less). I'm guessing that's because these things are expensive to run, which, if this is all they do, seems, uh, problematic.
Absolutely- I’m sure it’s expensive to run. But they are charging $10 a user for people who are currently paying $8.75/user - AND you have to turn it on for all users. It’s a lot to ask somebody to pay over double just for some AI features… IMO. However I know people are paying for it, so I guess good for them.
I've thought a lot about the later thing, which seems like it should work, but doesn't really for me? I think the problem is that slack is just too oriented around messages. You can save individual messages for later, but that's a really imprecise unit - it could be part of a bigger thread, where you really want to save the whole conversation, or it could be one message in 10 that someone sent you because they were treating slack like texting. There's no real guardrails about how to use slack or how to contain conversations, so features like this that try to help you save stuff feel off to me, because there aren't clear boundaries around what exactly you're saving.
Ever try Zulip? It’s got an additional level of organization within channels called “topics” (~ basically e-mail subject lines), plus that bubbling to the top of a channel behavior when a topic is revived.
It’s been back to Slack for me for the past year after switching jobs, after several years of Zulip, and you’ve captured the pain very eloquently, as always.
oooh I kinda like this. The design feels a little old-school message board, which i'm not into, but the idea of it basically being public email threads that anyone can join seems actually pretty ideal.
Feels we are only toying things out there... even after a decade in it, there's so much to do. Boring stuff yes, hard work yes, but what's not?
Even if our decisions are much more about emotions than data, AI, whatever we do with the bytes. The industry won't vanish. The accountant didn't. "Another possibility is that VP is the appropriate plateau for the Silicon Valley data professional". Is there something after "Partner" for the accountants?
Yeah, in the overall scheme of things, I don't think any of that stuff is bad. It's pretty good, really. It only seems bad relative to what was sold for so long, about how data people shall inherit the earth, and all of that. They may be important, but it doesn't seem like they're gonna be the bosses of everything either.
How about investing in my app? Like Seinfeld is a show about nothing, my app is an app that nothing. You open it and it just sits there doing nothing. Nothing happens. How much can I put Benn. Ventures down for? I won't accept nothing for an answer.
> well-organized email threads
Have you ever used email?
Ok fair. But at least it usually stays in threads. Plus, given that it's build on a protocol and not a centralized product, it does fairly well, all things considered.
I guess that does raise a sort of interesting question though: What would it look like if someone rebuilt email as a closed app? Maybe the problem with email is less email, and more that it has to work in this open ecosystem that makes it really hard to manage.
late to the game - but my number one problem with slack is everything disappears after I read it and then I can't find it again - and I hate having everything marked as unread.
Also - I'm starting a filing cabinet business with redundancy via underground tunnels. You put the paper in the filing cabinet and it automatically photocopies the paper and sends a copy to another location via the tunnel. 50k min investment.
Yeah, the unread thing is really messy, especially since it's just a marker in the thread, and not specific to messages. And if your filing cabinet can replace Slack, I'm in.
Ya - and the amount they are charging for their AI features… Wow. I’m somewhere between impressed and appalled.
Not quite there yet in replacing slack - but aim to take on slack,notion, email, and ultimately computers. Multi trillion dollar opportunity.
Oh huh, I didn't realize they were charging extra for it (and for the kind of obvious stuff like better search and "summarize my messages," no less). I'm guessing that's because these things are expensive to run, which, if this is all they do, seems, uh, problematic.
Absolutely- I’m sure it’s expensive to run. But they are charging $10 a user for people who are currently paying $8.75/user - AND you have to turn it on for all users. It’s a lot to ask somebody to pay over double just for some AI features… IMO. However I know people are paying for it, so I guess good for them.
With such an innovative investment thesis this fund is bound for greatness...
It's destined for greatness, if only someone would give me a few hundred million dollars to invest.
top notch
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kpw92vH0wdc
This is how all great ponzi schemes begin
I think Slack’s `Later` queue, and the newly launched `Lists` features solve the gaps you’ve flagged quite robustly.
I've thought a lot about the later thing, which seems like it should work, but doesn't really for me? I think the problem is that slack is just too oriented around messages. You can save individual messages for later, but that's a really imprecise unit - it could be part of a bigger thread, where you really want to save the whole conversation, or it could be one message in 10 that someone sent you because they were treating slack like texting. There's no real guardrails about how to use slack or how to contain conversations, so features like this that try to help you save stuff feel off to me, because there aren't clear boundaries around what exactly you're saving.
This resonates. I often find myself scrambling for additional context when I want to act on a saved message.
Ever try Zulip? It’s got an additional level of organization within channels called “topics” (~ basically e-mail subject lines), plus that bubbling to the top of a channel behavior when a topic is revived.
It’s been back to Slack for me for the past year after switching jobs, after several years of Zulip, and you’ve captured the pain very eloquently, as always.
oooh I kinda like this. The design feels a little old-school message board, which i'm not into, but the idea of it basically being public email threads that anyone can join seems actually pretty ideal.
The what's next after a decade or two in the industry is a real question. Die a hero or live long enough to become an accountant isn't ? (https://benn.substack.com/p/the-end-of-our-purple-era)
Feels we are only toying things out there... even after a decade in it, there's so much to do. Boring stuff yes, hard work yes, but what's not?
Even if our decisions are much more about emotions than data, AI, whatever we do with the bytes. The industry won't vanish. The accountant didn't. "Another possibility is that VP is the appropriate plateau for the Silicon Valley data professional". Is there something after "Partner" for the accountants?
Yeah, in the overall scheme of things, I don't think any of that stuff is bad. It's pretty good, really. It only seems bad relative to what was sold for so long, about how data people shall inherit the earth, and all of that. They may be important, but it doesn't seem like they're gonna be the bosses of everything either.
Actually this article is spot on. Slack at even a medium sized company is a hot mess. Email exists for a reason.
Many people are saying
You have a strong tendency to write what everyone is thinking, but you say it so much better than we can.
Thanks, I appreciate that. Though hopefully most people are also thinking more chipper things than whatever goes on here.
How about investing in my app? Like Seinfeld is a show about nothing, my app is an app that nothing. You open it and it just sits there doing nothing. Nothing happens. How much can I put Benn. Ventures down for? I won't accept nothing for an answer.
I mean, it could work: https://benn.substack.com/i/144275406/status-software
I was so convinced it was going to be real! Alas the world lost a grouchy truthy hustler.
To the relief of everyone involved, I hope.
Try larksuite.com, you'll discover a new world
oh wow, which product? They have...a lot. Including something called meegle?